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Post by Chocolatepot on Apr 30, 2009 15:28:16 GMT -5
They could have had strokes during the torture or been deprived of oxygen. There could be something in the nature of the Cruciatus curse that damages the brain when applied powerfully continually and over a long period. At the risk of sounding like the TVTropers trying to work out the science of Avatar: the Last Airbender, perhaps the curse attacks the brain, making the body think it's in pain? That could definitely do some bad things if it went on long enough. I watch too much House.
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Post by vegablack on Apr 30, 2009 23:48:42 GMT -5
BirdG your thoughts on this are very close to mine. I've thought that they suffered both physical brain damage and emotional damage from their experiences. I have conversations in my mind where Neville realizes that his parents are depressed from spending years in such a limited environment. I'm not sure that magic could physically cure the damage. We are told that Dark Curses leave wounds that don't heal -- that's practically the definition of a Dark Curse. I assumed that Moody never replaces his missing eyes and limbs because they were taken by Dark Curse. This is why Bill's face remains permanently scarred.
The Cruciatus Curse is one of the ultimate Dark Curses, I figure it creates wounds that are unhealable. Or that is how I see it.
Chocolate Pot I wonder if you are correct about how the Cruciatus Curse works. Perhaps it works on the brain exciting the nerves to believe they are in pain. Phantom pain when a limb is lost can be excruciating. This could also explain the contraction of the limbs and the way the body moves when his by a Crucio. The brain pulls the musceles in that way in reaction to what the curse is doing. This is pure speculation on my part.
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Post by birdg on May 1, 2009 0:56:05 GMT -5
Well, medicine is changing every day. And since the wizarding world seems to follow the Muggle world's lead on science-related things it's possible the technological advances of the 90's that came from unlocking DNA (like cloning and being able to grow tissue) will lead to amazing advances in magical medicine.
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Post by queenie on May 1, 2009 3:24:46 GMT -5
I never doubted that Barty Crouch Jr. was guilty. I think she was saying an even more sophisticated statement than a protest against unfair trials of the innocent. Amnesty is against torture and unfair trials for everyone. I think she was saying that even the guilty deserve a fair trial. While I agree both with the idea of JKR saying "even the guilty deserve a fair trial," for me, I still think that Barty Crouch was innocent at first. Now, this is because I was an optimistic, maybe even quixotic ten-year-old when I first read the book. I saw good in everyone, and I saw fear and guilt in Barty Crouch's eyes - metaphorically speaking. Even on rereads, when I knew that his every gesture towards Neville was a plot to try and coax Neville towards helping Harry, I still saw his encouragement of Neville as a show of genuine pity. Barty had lost his family, too. He'd had to live up to unrealistic expectations too, one imagines, or else been emotionally neglected by his father. It's possible that the Dementors can stir up feelings of guilt and remorse - make Barty think, " How could I have tortured those two, knowing they had a son?" Even though I see lots of evidence for Barty Crouch Jr. having been utterly depraved and twisted to the bone, loyal to Voldemort to the exclusion of human charity, and not above using the child that he had helped to orphan as a pawn -- still, I read him as having that little touch of pity in him. That innocence, at first. At the very least, it makes him that much more tragic. On the other hand, the three other people with him were guilty as sin, and they deserved a fair trial, too.
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Post by vegablack on May 1, 2009 10:50:09 GMT -5
I would be more willing to believe that Crouch felt some pity for Neville or guilt over the past if he hadn't preformed the Cruciatus curse in front of the kid and driving him purposefully almost to hysteria and if he hadn't been using him as a tool to lead Harry to his death.
He looked at Neville nodded and then preformed the Cruciatus curse continually even as the kid became more and more hysterical. He only stopped when Hermione seeing the effect of his actions on Neville screamed at him to stop.
Would a person who felt any pity or guilt have behaved that way? I think he recognized Neville and thought he'd poke at his wounds a bit. Even if for some bizarre reason he needed to preform the curse which I doubt, why keep it up when the kid was in such obvious pain over it, if he felt any pity for the kid?
We know Crouch was extremely intelligent. I'm sure he knew he was luring Harry to a terrible fate. Why would he use a kid he pitied as the tool to do it?
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Post by vegablack on Jan 6, 2010 20:42:09 GMT -5
When Molly was fighting with Bellatrix what was Augusta Longbottom doing? I can't picture her meekly following Molly's and Harry's order to stay back. I could see Neville following Harry's orders more than Augusta. Was she in awe of Harry enough to follow his orders. Did she think Molly should fight her alone. Was she knocked on the head and unconscious. What do you think was her atitude toward the fight and her lack of role in it?
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Post by siriusgirl on Jan 6, 2010 22:32:49 GMT -5
I think Crouch's son may have been innocent and was a tool for his dad who we know was corrupt and did anything to advance his power. May have being key words, we don't know for sure. However, I think he definitely became a DE, and truly was psychotic in GOF.
We know the movie presents him as being guilty, but movies aren't canon, so we can still interpret it as we want. If he was involved I don't think he'd show Neville the spider if he felt guilty. He was, to quote Dean Thomas "A total maniac".
As for Augusta, I think she did let Molly handle it but I'm sure took down several death eaters in the final battle.
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