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Post by vegablack on Aug 22, 2009 16:08:31 GMT -5
In the past few days while reading fanfiction, I have encountered the idea that Gryffindor is the cool popular house and Ron, Hermione and Harry are the cool popular kids.
I find that unsupported in the book. Certainly Harry is popular by the sixth book, but it would be odd if the Quidditch team captain, star seeker, and heroic fighter of death eaters wasn't popular. And he was an outright outcast numerous times in the earlier books.
I don't see any sign that Hermione, or Ron are popular in the way meant, or that students envy those who got into Gryffindor in the way that people might admire members of a particular fraternity or clique. Most students like the house that they are actually in as their house, that reflects them.
(This is a subject for the discussion of houses. Does this division of students preclude others based on popularity and coolness.)
Those who write this way are often not Gryffindor or Trio fans and the accusation of coolness is given with a bit of a disdain. (The same accusation is made about Lilly, that she gave up Snape to hang with the more popular marauders.)
Am I missing something? Have I missed out on grasping the social status issues at Hogwarts.
Why the obsession with who are the popular kids. What does this say about the fans themselves?
What is up with this? Some of these fans are thirty years old. Has no one gotten over high school?
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Post by kelleypen on Aug 23, 2009 8:24:35 GMT -5
I think it does reflect an American obsession with high school stereotypes--name one American 'teen movie' without those stereotypes. Actually, I thought of one once, but I forget which one it was. But our culture makes such a big deal about being cool, being popular, not being labeled as a nerd . . . we see it around us constantly. I think it is the culture of the fans spilling over into the fandom.
If there are cool students at Hogwarts, then we have examples like Cedric Diggory--who is popular because he is a friend to everyone, or Draco Malfoy--who is popular only among the 'in' crowd. But with very few exceptions, Jo really doesn't play with the whole popularity, who's cool, who's a nerd game. Thank goodness.
If she makes any argument for it at all, it is with the Marauders. Snape's resentment of Potter and company seems to place them in the cool category--but it doesn't keep characters like Lily from finding them immature. Remus and Peter's delight at finding themselves in the company of James and Sirius also seems to support their perception as cool. The only other mention of someone being cool as opposed to being a nerd, is Harry's comparison of headboys Bill Weasley and Percy Weasley, but since they are brothers and both Gryffindors, that doesn't support the whole which house is cool and which one is nerdy idea.
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Post by starsea on Aug 24, 2009 14:33:34 GMT -5
Certainly Ron and Hermione aren't in with the "cool" crowd. Ron is the sixth Weasley brother who hangs around with Harry Potter; Hermione is the brainbox who irritates all the people in her year because she's so obsessed with being the best in class. I did notice, however, that she was very aware of who people in other houses were. I don't think it's just because she's a girl. It may be that, sharing a dormitory with Parvati and Lavender, she reached out to girls in other houses such as Hannah Abbott and Susan Bones.
A great deal of Ginny hate seems to come from people who see Ginny as representing the pretty girls who made their lives a misery, ignoring the fact that Ginny stands up for both Neville and Luna.
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Post by queenie on Aug 25, 2009 14:39:26 GMT -5
I think that also makes up for a lot of the Cho Chang hate. Popular, pretty, good at sports, in the Smart People's house, and turned Harry down for the dance? Bad combination. And her hosepipe status in book 5 didn't help matters.
On the flip side, this probably accounts for Luna's popularity with fans, because she is such an outsider that they feel they can identify with her, and so they gloss over her conspiracy theories and her complete and utter lack of tact.
On the one hand, Ravenclaw is the Smart People's House - which led me to identify with it right away (heh, little bibliophile), but others might read it as the Wimpy Nerds house. On the other hand, when the Beauxbatons students (namely Fleur) arrived at Hogwarts, they ingratiated themselves immediately with Ravenclaw - Fleur even took Roger Davies to the ball - which lends Ravenclaw some status as the Popular House, which Cho Chang, poor thing, does nothing to demolish.
One does have to wonder why Beauxbatons immediately sat at the Ravenclaw table. My personal idea is that Rowena Ravenclaw herself was of French extraction, and that the Beauxbatons students knew that, and so attached themselves to Ravenclaw.
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Post by starsea on Aug 27, 2009 16:47:48 GMT -5
One does have to wonder why Beauxbatons immediately sat at the Ravenclaw table. My personal idea is that Rowena Ravenclaw herself was of French extraction, and that the Beauxbatons students knew that, and so attached themselves to Ravenclaw. That's a nice idea. Or it could have been that as they were renowned as The House of Learning, they might be the most likely to speak a bit of French.  |
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Post by siriusgirl on Jun 28, 2010 13:08:13 GMT -5
I think that also makes up for a lot of the Cho Chang hate. Popular, pretty, good at sports, in the Smart People's house, and turned Harry down for the dance? Bad combination. And her hosepipe status in book 5 didn't help matters. I admit I didn't like Cho much in book 5 because she was so fragile and seemed oblivious that Harry wasn't in better shape emotionally. That said, I don't hate her anymore. I think Cho hate gets blown out of proportion. Did she turn down Harry? Yes, but she had someone else who asked her first, and she wasn't snobby, she was polite and sensitive about it. As for her "hosepipe behavior" come on, her boyfriend was murdered a year ago and she had no closure and was still emotionally scarred from it! Cho was generally nice, nicer, in fact at first than Fleur (I like Fleur, in the end of HBP and through TDH, she showed she was brave and caring). Those cool kid and nerd stereotypes are typically American but not applicable in British so much. We do see Cedric who was popular because well he's an overall great guy, and Cho who for the most part seemed to be kind to everyone. The Weasley twins I think were also popular beacuse they were funny and loads of fun, if they were real and I knew them I'd love to hang with them. |
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Post by Mirabelle on Jul 3, 2010 23:33:21 GMT -5
With the Weasley twins, if they liked you they were probably great but if they didn't watch out. They had no problems making their dislike known.
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Post by siriusgirl on Jul 5, 2010 9:15:03 GMT -5
^^
True enough.
If anyone is a "nerd" the closest is Hermione, she's definitely not the popular type. Ginny is popular but not a mean girl, she stands up for Neville and Luna.
People who accuse Lily of ditchign Snape for the popular crowd to me sound like Snapefen who say she was wrong to end her friendship with him after he called her a racial slur. That attitude drives me nuts! Snape PUSHED Lily away. . .but see the Snape and Lily thread for that.
We see Gryffindor as the "best" house b/c we see it through a Gryffindor's eyes. The stereotype of Hufflepuff as a mediocrity is really irksome, partly b/c I'd be a Hufflepuff, and also because what they value: Loyalty, friendship, fairness is just as important as bravery, cunning, or wit.
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Post by starsea on Jul 12, 2010 13:51:53 GMT -5
I don't think Hufflepuff IS shown as a 'mediocre' house by Jo, that's just the perception of some characters. Hagrid is the one who tries to stick up for Hufflepuffs and after Gryffindor, Hufflepuffs are always the ones quickest to support Harry - there are a lot of Hufflepuffs in Dumbledore's Army for example. Hufflepuff produced Cedric Diggoy, Justin Finch-Fletchley, Ernie Macmillan, Susan Bones, Hannah Abbott, who were all decent and dedicated people. (And Zacharias Smith, but he's the exception to the rule, it seems.)
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Post by siriusgirl on Jul 12, 2010 19:17:05 GMT -5
I don't think Hufflepuff IS shown as a 'mediocre' house by Jo, that's just the perception of some characters. Hagrid is the one who tries to stick up for Hufflepuffs and after Gryffindor, Hufflepuffs are always the ones quickest to support Harry - there are a lot of Hufflepuffs in Dumbledore's Army for example. Hufflepuff produced Cedric Diggoy, Justin Finch-Fletchley, Ernie Macmillan, Susan Bones, Hannah Abbott, who were all decent and dedicated people. (And Zacharias Smith, but he's the exception to the rule, it seems.) Starsea-- let me clarify that. I don't think students think that (except for Draco Malfoy, and what does he count for?). Jo does show Hufflepuff in a very positive light. I meant more fandom, some people saying that Hufflepuff is boring. |
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Post by starsea on Jul 14, 2010 12:27:20 GMT -5
Starsea-- let me clarify that. I don't think students think that (except for Draco Malfoy, and what does he count for?). Jo does show Hufflepuff in a very positive light. I meant more fandom, some people saying that Hufflepuff is boring. Oh, I know. I didn't mean to imply that YOU thought Hufflepuff was 'boring'. I think people a) misinterpret what the Sorting House says about Hufflepuff "taking the lot" and teaching them no matter what as somehow BORING (when it's the most inclusive attitude of all) or b) think that because Hufflepuffs aren't quite as dark as Slytherin, that makes them boring. *sigh* |
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Post by siriusgirl on Jul 14, 2010 16:18:44 GMT -5
It's annoying. Hufflepuff aren't all about honour or victory. I think they're usually the least judgmental. Note that in COS though they did jump to conclusions about Harry, they were the ones who apologized for it afterwards, they next to the Gryffindors, were the ones who stayed the most to fight. I have my Hufflepuff OC, Abigail and Slytherin OC, Laura, as friends (they become friends in their sixth year).
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