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Ginny
Apr 2, 2009 14:27:10 GMT -5
Post by vegablack on Apr 2, 2009 14:27:10 GMT -5
Ginny is one of the most controversial characters in the Potter series. Readers either love her or hate her. I've heard many say that they knew girls like her in high school and they just couldn't like her. I have to admit to being a Ginny fan. She's my favorite Weasley.
I did not find her transformation from shy eleven year old to aggressive teenager unbelievable. As an adult I've been amazed at the ability of teenagers to appear at least to me as totally different people from year to year. (I would quote the horrible psychologist father character from Arrested Development but I won't because he gives me a rash.)
So what do you think of Ginny?
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Ginny
Apr 2, 2009 16:31:04 GMT -5
Post by starsea on Apr 2, 2009 16:31:04 GMT -5
I love Ginny. One of the things that amused me most about HBP was people saying that Ginny was "too perfect" then saying with their next breath "she's too aggresive, too catty, she's horrible". Either she's one or the other! Ron says it right in CoS: "She's not normally like this." Even in CoS, this is a girl who gathers the strength of mind to hurl Riddle's diary into the toilet and then sneaks into her brother and crush's dormitory and trashes the place in order to find it again. And then she turns down the opportunity to go to the Yule Ball with Harry, which takes a different kind of courage, one which is much harder for a teenager.
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Ginny
Apr 3, 2009 7:06:01 GMT -5
Post by birdg on Apr 3, 2009 7:06:01 GMT -5
Here's the thing, I knew about the craziness and wanks surrounding HP (thanks to spending a lot of time on Journalfen) and so I knew Ginny was hated by many. With that in mind, I read the books intent to give her character a critical look. After reading them, I found her likable enough but wasn't enthralled.
Then I noticed how just insane, totally-out-of-proportion and never-ending most of the complaints about her and the H/G romance were and I became a fan. At first it was out of spite but eventually, I defended her enough that I realized I really adore the character and the H/G romance. I've written essays where I've tackled the whole notion of her being a Lily-clone, being incredibly beautiful (and thus a Mary Sue) and her being totally perfect and always right (and thus a Mary Sue). Surprise, surprise, all the arguments were bunk, easily disproved by canon.
(It's also helped that I've read some great essays about her characterization and the H/G romance.)
And I'm always amused by people who find it just unbelievable (!!!1) that Ginny was hot-tempered and aggressive. Really, a Weasley being hot-tempered and aggressive is a surprise? Even Percy and Arthur, the two more mild-mannered Weasleys, have proved themselves to be very feisty and willing to fight for their opinions. (Even when they're wrong-headed, as was Percy's case.) Ginny proved back in CoS that she'd get up into someone's face to defend someone she cared about and that she was capable of dealing with a lot (like being possessed by the scariest Dark Lord ever) and still survive. With time, training, gaining confidence on the Quidditch field - just like Harry did and gaining confidence after standing up to Death Eaters, she's going to be cockier and have less patience for prats like Smith who seem to think her and her friends nearly getting killed is just another juicy piece of gossip.
Finally, it really annoys me how many people downplay her actions in DH. Whether Harry should have asked her to come with on their journey is a moot point to me because Ginny couldn't. She was underage and still had the Trace on her. That made her a liability. I've always seen it as a sign of Ginny's maturity that she didn't insist on joining them. And it's not like she spent that time sitting around, pining for Harry. She was one of the leaders of a resistance group that recruited and trained some of the people who wound up fighting in the final battle! And she was a leader because it obviously wasn't Luna or Neville's idea to steal the sword. How could it be? They didn't know it had been left to Harry, only Ginny could have known that.
Meh, people spend too much time trying to turn her into that one popular cheerleader who was mean to them in high school that they don't even notice the real character.
And those are my thoughts on yaoi.
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Ginny
Apr 3, 2009 7:46:14 GMT -5
Post by mo on Apr 3, 2009 7:46:14 GMT -5
My chief complaint about Ginny is that she doesn't get enough "page time." I know that JKR had to cut a good deal of material from the books and I feel like poor Ginny may have paid the price, there. I think the whole Ginny arc would have made more sense if we had seen SOMETHING of her in PoA, more of her growing confidence in GoF and OotP, etc. Obviously, she was maturing beyond her shyness after Cos, it would have been nice to see. I guess we are a bit hindered by Harry's Pov, but I think it would have made sense, for example, if she had made a comment in the beginning of PoA about not letting life kick her around or something. (CoS would have been hugely traumatic for an 11 year old girl, I think it would have been totally believable for her use those events as a catalyst for kick-butt! Ginny who joined in the trip to the Department of Mysteries in OoTP.
I also thought she was oddly nasty to Hermione throughout HBP, and I never figured out why....maybe she shared the Weasley Delusion that Harry and Hermione had a thing? I don't know.
Ginny, like Luna also suffers from bad Fanon characterisations. I have seen some Ginnys in fanfic and RPG's who are totally unbearable MarySues with either superhuman powers of perfection or absurd whiny angst. There are some good fanon Ginnys, though, I like Evanesco75's Ginny in both "Never Enough" and the WIP "Blood and Magic" and I think our Hallowed Ground RPG Ginny is doing a good job of making Ginny bold without being a superhero.
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Ginny
Apr 3, 2009 8:04:20 GMT -5
Post by birdg on Apr 3, 2009 8:04:20 GMT -5
Are you talking about the "don't pretend you know anything about Quidditch" remark?
Because, I gotta say, I think Hermione had it coming. She was nagging Harry about the book and when outright nagging didn't work, she tried to manipulate Ginny into being on her side by using Quidditch. At that point Ron, Harry and Ginny had told her to back off and she kept banging on about the book. Hermione was being usual obsessed self and I think when she tried to use Quidditch against Harry, Ginny snapped.
I don't know. I always wonder why people focus on that and ignore the fact that Harry and Ron had told Hermione to back off. I mean, yes, Hermione was right that the book was dodgy but she was also largely motivated by her own jealousy at Harry beating her in Potions and Harry, Ron and Ginny knew it. When Harry points out that the book allowed him to save Ron's life, Hermione brings up him "getting a reputation in Potions he didn't deserve" as if her not getting top marks was comparable.
I think Hermione was being ridiculous.
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Ginny
Apr 3, 2009 17:34:08 GMT -5
Post by pigwithhair on Apr 3, 2009 17:34:08 GMT -5
Ginny struck me as nasty through most of the little we saw of her in the fifth and sixth book with the big exception being when Harry broke it off with her.
It's obvious from interviews that JKR intended Ginny to be a strong personality, but prior to that I didn't see her that way, other than in Book Two when she kept what was happening to her to herself. She was an intriguing character in Book Two, and obviously Harry's future mate, but no I couldn't stand her in the later books, but I also agree that we didnt' see much of her.
I thought she was mature and very understanding of Harry's character when he broke up with her. I liked that she didn't cry and didn't nag or question him, like Hermione definitely would have done. Hermione never understood how to handle Harry, hence her nagging at him.
After that, I had hoped to see more of Harry missing her. I was surprised but how little of that we saw in DH. It would have made more sense to me, given his feelings for her, if there had been a few more instances during his great frustration and despair, when he had wondered what she was doing and what she would say or think about this or that. All we saw, other than their kiss in DH, was Harry checking the map twice in all that time.
At the end of DH she was wanting to get out there and fight without being a snippy brat, and I appreciated seeing that side of her again. I'm curious to see how she's portrayed in this next film.
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Ginny
Apr 5, 2009 21:29:44 GMT -5
Post by Ilene Bones on Apr 5, 2009 21:29:44 GMT -5
I've hesitated replying to this because I recall my stance on Ginny got me some flak on SQ. However, here is my honest take on my issues with Ginny as a literary character. Not really with Ginny if she was a real person, as I'm really not sure what kind of person that would be. There are many places outside SQ where it seems many readers absolutely hate Ginny's guts and see her as this manipulative, cruel, evil schemer. I don't see Ginny this way. However I still don't understand Ginny's personality, or relate to her issues much. So I just never got emotionally invested in Ginny (and as a consequence, the H/G ship) much as I wished to, since I knew this was Rowling's intent.
I agree with mo that Ginny didn't get enough page-time; or, at least, that her page-time was poorly managed.
Now, I thought the Ginny of the first 4 books was a consistent character, in that despite her shyness around Harry she does show a lot of backbone and conviction (such as defending Harry against Draco in CoS, and not ditching Neville in GoF). And while I thought the "lucky you" and "chocolate in the library" scenes were in keeping with the previous depiction of Ginny, I did not like how much of Ginny's character development in OotP and HBP was based on telling, not showing, such as when Hermione suddenly announces that Ginny has been sneaking out on her brothers' broom all this time in OotP, when until then there was no hint Ginny even liked Quidditch. This I found rather emotionally unsatisfying.
When HBP came around I found the whole "chest monster" motif of HBP to be very awkward and silly, and this distracted me from the H/G romance. I agree with pigwithhair that the breakup scene was a good one. However, other than this scene there is not much I saw of Harry and Ginny actually interacting as a couple, not just people with mutual crushes -- and there is a BIG difference! I also had some issues about the scene where Ginny says she never gave up on Harry, since that took away from some of the positive feeling I did get about the friendship between Harry and Ginny in OotP.
And when DH came around, it seemed Ginny faded from an individual character to a symbol (much like the dot on the Map) of Harry's eventual reward of domestic bliss. Not to mention how in DH she offers herself to Harry even after the official breakup, which undermined her earlier acceptance of having to part ways for now. And BTW, I don't mean to debate whether she meant to go "all the way" or just give Harry the snog of his life so far. The underlying message isn't much different -- that the best gift Ginny saw to give Harry for his "coming of age" involved her body and sensual pleasures. Speaking of which, I also didn't like how Rowling seemed to emphasize how attractive and desirable Ginny was, not just to Harry and the boys she dated, but to other men such as Zabini and Krum. I just thought this was somewhat of an overkill, and tended to objectify Ginny as a trophy, the beautiful princess who serves as the Hero's reward at the end of the tale. That kind of message I find can be very dangerous, too many teenage girls think their value to boys is based only on their physical aspects.
Hmm, maybe I have more of a problem with the development of H/G (which seemed focused mostly on sexual attraction, not personalities) than the development of Ginny herself, and I know there are other topics for that discussion. Again, I knew what Rowling's intent was here and I really wish she'd been able to convince me, but at this point I can't honestly say I was convinced and able to be emotionally invested in H/G. On the other hand, I thought the development of R/H was done very well for the most part (the HBP antics annoyed me a bit, but their DH relationship was stellar).
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Ginny
Sept 18, 2009 3:15:02 GMT -5
Post by mollyweasley on Sept 18, 2009 3:15:02 GMT -5
Ginny is one of my favorite characters. I think that she is one of the few girls who are a realistic character. Lavender for example is a stereotype. Hermione seems like a stereotype in the earlier books, bur developes to a real character.
Ginny grows during the books. I like that se has a willof her own and that she dares to say what she thinks. She argues with Harry in OotP and she tells her brothers that she cn take care of herself in HBP. I would like her to take a bigger part in DH.
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Ginny
Sept 18, 2009 3:55:23 GMT -5
Post by birdg on Sept 18, 2009 3:55:23 GMT -5
Well, that I agree with. As much as I enjoy it, I think HBP is the most disjointed book in the series. I think even the behemoth OOTP flows better.
a.) When would they have mentioned it? In GoF, when Quidditch was canceled for the Triwizard tournament and no one would be thinking about it? In PoA when she was recovering from what happened the year prior?
b.) Not to mention it probably wasn't mentioned before because it seems like it was a secret. Hermione only told them when Ginny started playing because it probably wasn't a secret any longer!
c.) Ginny's from a family of Quidditch players and fans - of course she likes Quidditch. Even Percy went to sports games.
I never got why people are so bothered by this. She's a teenage girl in love. To me, she meant she still had feelings for him but was trying to move on and accept him as a friend. Should she have turned her feelings like a switch?
Rowling emphasizes it because Harry cares about it. If these books were the "Ron Weasley" series we'd hear all about stupid Krum and stupid McLaggen and other boys who thought Hermione was cute. (Stupid Neville? Stupid Terry Boot? If Hermione could snag an International Quidditch Star and was bragging about how easy it would to get McLaggen to date her then I'm sure some other boys had noticed her.)
But the older International Quidditch Star who had girls chasing after him choosing the bookish girl who turns into a raving beauty with just a few simple hair charms (and getting her teeth fixed) and gets her big Cinderella moment where everyone stares at her in amazement at the Yule Ball isn't princessy?
Is that message ok for teen girls - hey girls, get a make-over and you too can be the belle of the ball! (But it helps if you're only "Hollywood ugly" to start.)
Under the circumstances - it's a war and that could be the last time she sees Harry - what's wrong with that? Honestly, I loved Ginny for that because that just seemed like the most realistic response and I was getting a bit tired with Ron and Hermione for not getting on with it already.
To be honest, while R/Hr is my OTP for the books, their relationship was ridiculous at times. And the wait from Dumbledore's death to their first kiss is one big example of this. It was just drawn out more than it should have been and I get why JKR did that but it always struck me as unrealistic that they would still be dancing around each other.
I liked it because I thought it would be dull if every relationship started from the same place. Some relationships start with the physical aspect and others with the mental or emotional. I love R/Hr but I wouldn't want every romance in the series to be modeled after their relationship.
Furthermore, I think it's obvious that Ginny and Harry did have things in common - interest in sports, similar sense of humor and were both in the DA. So it's not like she was some random girl that popped up out of nowhere who shared nothing with Harry but a few sunny day snogs.
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Ginny
Sept 19, 2009 11:05:28 GMT -5
Post by vegablack on Sept 19, 2009 11:05:28 GMT -5
What I think is interesting about Harry-Ginny in the books is that they were only dating for a few weeks when he breaks up with her at the end of book six. This gets forgotten. I only noticed it when I was going over book six for a fic.
First I think this is interesting because it explains why the break up was taken seriously and why Ginny wasn't used as a lure to capture Harry. I always wondered why the Death Eaters didn't grab her. It makes sense if the story is that this was a short term thing with a girl who was his friend's sister, one who had a lot of boy friends before and was probably not serious about him, who perhaps dated him because he was so popular. This was a scheme that was believable and easily promotable by say Snape. Add that she was a pureblood at a time where the death eaters are trying to seduce purebloods into the fold and we have a plausible reason for her relative safety. She is punished or mistreated as a recalcitrant student rather than as a love interest who could be used to lure Harry out of hiding.
Second I think it explains a lot about their attitudes in the seventh book. These are not mature adults in the middle of a long term romance. These are two teenagers who however long they've been crushing on each other have only been together romantically for something on the order of a month or less. In some ways it would be silly to give them a more profound relationship. The fact that they later marry doesn't matter. I'm sure that those adults who marry their teen love did not have a mature fully developed relationship when they started at 16. The fact that we don't see the maturity develop is a byproduct of the scope of the books.
Given her age (sixteen going on seventeen) and the length of time she crushed on Harry and the shortness of their time together I think the portrayal of their attitudes seemed very true to life.
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